The Problem of Intelligence

Thinking about the mind? Or the brain?
Type it out and see what others think.
Serendipper
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Re: The Problem of Intelligence

Post by Serendipper » Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:26 pm

In 400 million years, why have sharks not gotten any smarter?

(video should be cued)



The answer must be that the high-iq sharks compete less successfully than the dumb ones. Perhaps intelligence is not an attribute that is strongly favored in Darwinian Evolution.

So it would seem that animals in existence today are optimally intelligent and more intelligence is not favored.
Serendipity - the occurrence of events by chance in a happy or beneficial way; life; learning.

Satyr
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Re: The Problem of Intelligence

Post by Satyr » Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:23 pm

Serendipper wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:14 pm
You say rocks are dead and claim it's by observable, testable, phenomena? It's a matter of opinion based on opinionated definitions of life.
Life is observable....not theoretical.
Life behaves, all other interacts.
Only life wills, that is it can choose the path-of-more-resistance. only life can go up-hill....water mud, dirt, cannot - it flows down-hill. Not consciously, not because it decided to, not because someone else told it to.
If you define life as animate, then no, rocks aren't animate. But if you define life is reduction of entropy, then anything ordered is alive by the definition of life.
So, you redefine life to mean 'order' because you feel like it.
This is what I say about imbeciles corrupting language to legitimize their insanity...their desperate needs.
Order is not life.
Life is order, but not all order is life.
Jews are Semites but not all Semites are Jews.
Ideas are real, but not all reality is an idea, and not all ideas refer to the real.
Order is pattern....life is a unity of patterns that have become balanced, and can iterate, directed by past, precedent, by memory.
Order can create memory, but it is not memory. I can build a house of stone, but not all stone piles are homes.

If you intentionally confuse words, then love is god, up means divine, shit means gold...
Your feminine linguistics betray a motive...not a universal motive YOUR motive. I'm sure you do not have the brains to have invented it so it is adopted...you follow a comforting methodology.
Your goal is not clarity...it is self-aggrandizement, seeking love, appreciation....your particular needs are yet to be discovered. I'm speculating.
Your choice of order = life points to a desire to enhance your living experience with more order - to put your own life in order.
Using language in this way is how you hide your ignorance in a cloud of linguistic smoke and mirrors.
Specific words refer to specific interactions....those that do not are theoretical, abstract. Convolution of the two hides a motive.

Why not simply declare your self god and be done with it?
Universe is god, you are a part of god, by association you are god.
Why are you such a coy bitch? Flirty....
Whatever is alive depends on how you define life. There is a rock. It's ordered. How did it get that way? The rock appears to be falling apart, moving from lower entropy to higher entropy; it's dying. So if entropy was once lower, how did it get that way?
Forget about how it got that way, woman...let's focus on the words first, before we proceed.
Life refers to a specific configuration of order...not all order. It has a specific meaning- it refers to a specific phenomenon.

Big Bang is the closest approach to absolute order - never finalizing. There was a flaw, in your romantic terminology....the flaw we call chaos, defined as randomness to contrast with patterns which is order.
Satan makes life, and free-will possible - metaphor.
If all is ordered you are inconsequential, a bystander, god masturbating using your ass. The only way there is free-will is if there is chaos - randomness makes consciousness necessary - as an immediate adjustment to the forever unforeseeable.
If all was ordered there would be no need for consciousness.....patterns would react to patterns with no judgment required. No choice. everything would be predetermined and you an irrelevant and unnecessary audience.
Perhaps the universal mind is also vain....and needy.
And everything is contained in this universe. There can be no outside process that acted upon the dna molecule that didn't act on the water molecule. If one is memory then so is the other; just dna has more iterations, so more memory. The only way that I can imagine differentiating dna from water is to conjure some process that is distinct from this universe, and animal activity is not a distinct process, as if it had a spirit.
As if....yes....projecting.
You take yourself as a standard and find in the other what resembles it.....you then conclude that you and it are the same.
Bu you intentionally ignore what is different.

How iteration began to direct itself using memories is yet to be determined....but you already have the answer, don't you my arrogant princess pretending to be rational and humble. You are an ignoramus who uses superstition, her own ignorance, as evidence of something divine.
You already know the solution, but you must now justify it...so you sample reality, you seek out theories that support your desired solution...and you think backwards, like a bad girl. But nothing you declare can you show...it's all theory....words on a page - a thesis, scripture, a declaration.
In the mind any hypothesis is perfect and divine....even Marxism is perfect on paper.
What I know is that atoms do not require memory to be explained.
A river does not decide to flow down the hill, it does not will itself down.
How different patterns can become balanced unites, requiring an equal to their attractive force to break them apart, is not mystical. It's physics.
How gold is formed is not magical...its physics. It can be explained without resorting to mysticism. Occam's Razor. It can be explained using observable phenomena, not occult, magical, spiritual entities, and word juggling hypocrisy.
No consciousness is required to explain how forces harmonize when the attraction force exceeds the repulsion force. To a primitive mind, desperate for a comforting final solution, any explanation using spirits and souls and god, and consciousness is enough.

Interaction = attraction/repulsion = harmony/disharmony....no consciousness needed. No motive, no intent. Blind unconscious interactions, finding an ephemeral balance in relation to environment....to other patterned and non-patterned interactions. External pressure create attrition to produce gold...not a magical force.
External interactions pressure the patterns altering their vibration/oscillation - attrition, forming the element gold. No god in gold.

You've found the solution to everything...you are at the end of thinking.....you have seen the mind of god....all is alive. End of story.
Case closed....time for bed.
Only if you arbitrarily apply the word 'life' and you detach it from its original meaning.

I build a theory from the ground up....I deal in superior/inferior.
I neither know everything, nor will I ever know everything.
Those that have found the solution to all, can claim you as their follower...who cares?
Plenty of fools in the world.
Did you know the Loblolly Pine has a genome 7x bigger than the human genome? http://www.isciencetimes.com/articles/6 ... -human.htm

So, does it have more memory?
Yes...but not lucid memory.....not experience-based memory.
I differentiate first-hand from second-hand knowledge and memories. I do so not because I feel like it but to clarify, to distinguish, to bring to light.
It's memory is physical....DNA.....it has no mind to apply it, or to contradict it. It follows automated processes....the mind evolved to deal with the unforeseen, the random.
DNA = physical memory - automated
Mind = proactive memory - flexible.
There is also latent memory.....DNA that lies dormant until triggered.
Because I define life as reduction of entropy I'm projecting myself onto the world?
No, sweetie....chaos is increasing - from near absolute order, towards near absolute randomness - linear time. This is why life is a struggle - agon.
How does consciousness interpret this struggle? As need/suffering. Ergo to be conscious is to suffer, and to need. The non-living and the dead do not suffer and need nothing.
Life is, indeed, ordering...so it must close itself off, as much as possible from the flux. It is a resistance to increasing chaos.
feminine word-games,

What kind of word-games are masculine?
The masculine plays no word-games...it is straight, clear, direct, honest.
Only a masculine mind can be a philosopher...a woman is more for following, and for religion.
Man = mind dominated.
Woman = body dominated.

Balance in the Hellenic sense is a masculine mind that does not deny or ignore the feminine body - The ideal does not reject or ignore the real to fabricate its idealism.
The body dominated by the mind, not surrendering to it, nor rejecting it.
Physics (ground) - Metaphysics (foundations) - Ideals (projections)...the last two must align with the first, and with each other.
Words are tools to connect the ideal to the real...not to invent the real and then manipulate words to adhere to this fabrication.
substituting words to insinuate into the concept what does not belong there.
Not sure what that is.
It means replacing the word 'order' with the word 'life', for no reason other than because it satisfies your desired conclusion.
Life is order(ing) but not all ordering is life.
1+1 had to = 2. I imposed my will on it :twisted:
Show me a one outside your womanly mind.
One singularity.
sweetie...numbers are like words symbols...representing an abstraction. There is no one outside the brain, where it remain an abstraction that can refer to everything.
All is fluid...words symbols are static abstractions of the fluid. The noumenon translates the phenomenon into an idea.
Words represent the idea....like 1 is a symbol representing the idea of abstraction. All abstractions are one.
Outside the mind there is no one....no singularity, no absolute, defined as: immutable, indivisible, whole, complete, perfect...non-contingent, eternal...
That's psychotic.
Anything is possible. Define psychotic and tell me why it's bad. Psychotic has a bad cultural connotation stigmatizing it, so you attach the word to me and, presto, I'm instantly discredited. You do that too much, but it's cool... I can hone my abilities to spot the more nuanced and subtle pigeon-holing that I may otherwise miss. Ironic that you're my teacher :lol:
A psychotic is one who lives in his head.
I don't want to make you feel bad, but discrediting the person rather than the topic is a problem and you should work towards fixing it. We all have problems and that's kinda the point of this thread.
You can't make me feel bad even if you tried.
I discredit the idea and then the mind that declared it openly, assaulting my aesthetics.

I use aggression to drive away those that will only waste my time....I use others to make a point to the silent watchers.
My interest in you is minimal. I am using you towards another end.

Furthermore, creating passion is how I make the other expose himself from behind the controlled fake platitudes and polite pretenses.
I want to see what makes you tick....
When studying humans you must apply slightly different methods to those use when studying other animals.
Humans have memes covering genes....they adopt a learned character which they act out....stress or when inebriated this breaks down exposing the true self the personae.

Serendipper
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Re: The Problem of Intelligence

Post by Serendipper » Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:11 pm

What can I say but here's exhibit A:
Satyr wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:23 pm
This is what I say about imbeciles corrupting language to legitimize their insanity...their desperate needs.
Your feminine linguistics betray a motive...
I'm sure you do not have the brains to have invented it so it is adopted...
you follow a comforting methodology.
Your goal is not clarity...it is self-aggrandizement, seeking love, appreciation....
Using language in this way is how you hide your ignorance in a cloud of linguistic smoke and mirrors.
Why not simply declare your self god and be done with it?
Why are you such a coy bitch? Flirty....
Forget about how it got that way, woman...
god masturbating using your ass.
don't you my arrogant princess
You are an ignoramus who uses superstition, her own ignorance, as evidence of something divine.
and you think backwards, like a bad girl.
Show me a one outside your womanly mind.
sweetie...numbers are like words symbols...
I use aggression to drive away those that will only waste my time....
So you can spend it following me around? :lol:
I use others to make a point to the silent watchers.
Oh you're making a point alright :lol:
My interest in you is minimal.
That why you spend half a day on me? :roll:
I am using you towards another end.
Perverted I'm sure :?

This means I win, right? If you have a continuing need to resort to such tactics then it can only mean my arguments are sound, or at least you can't overturn them with the best of your abilities, which seem very impressive, but you've run out of ammo and have resorted to throwing mudballs and that's a good sign for me. ;)

Those appeals to emotion can never work, even if you're right, because emotional attacks provoke emotional response and when someone is thinking emotionally, they will be in flight or fight mode and never let you win. So I can only surmise that your conversion rate is zero and you've doubled-down thinking more is better.
Serendipity - the occurrence of events by chance in a happy or beneficial way; life; learning.

Satyr
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Re: The Problem of Intelligence

Post by Satyr » Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:38 pm

Serendipper wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:11 pm
So you can spend it following me around? :lol:
A girl should be flattered...that's why you 'lol' nervously.
Oh you're making a point alright :lol:
See....
That why you spend half a day on me? :roll:
See....that a bug finds the man studying it flattering, is how a woman finds a man's attentions validating.
Perverted I'm sure :?
It's all love, sweetie.
This means I win, right? If you have a continuing need to resort to such tactics then it can only mean my arguments are sound, or at least you can't overturn them with the best of your abilities, which seem very impressive, but you've run out of ammo and have resorted to throwing mudballs and that's a good sign for me. ;)
You won the moment I came into your life.

Remember....If you redefine words, you can invent any hypothesis that makes you moist.

I choose to redefine mountains as buildings....and trees as furniture....making this sentence reasonable.
I took a walk up a building range and came across an enclosure of wonderful furniture...a living room, a dining room....
I found myself in god house, and everywhere I looked I saw my reflection, and when I spoke I heard the walls echoing my words back, and when I lay down to nap on a bed-tree I was in his embrace...

My sweet girl...your world-god loves you.
He is self-loving, love loving love and you his self, loving self.

Now I must depart this glade for your feminine antics have grown tiresome and my time is too precious to waste on one dull specimen.
So many bovines....so little time.

Oh and...
Ta, Ta,

Serendipper
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Re: The Problem of Intelligence

Post by Serendipper » Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:48 am

Satyr wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:38 pm
Blubbering Sniveling
Hey La Trollio, this is you right?



scartissue454 - lmao it's like an atheist commenter on youtube but in real life

Like an ankle-biter yapping incessantly or perhaps incestuously about Sodom's demise post-Weimar. Der Fuhrer musta missed one :twisted:

Did the mean ole bible-thumpers pick on you in school too? Why all the rage against religion? Why the crusade against conviction? Why the holy war against holiness; the Jihad against Jesus; the push against piety; the demonization of denomination; the infanticide of faith? What's it to ya? Why can't you live and let live instead of portraying the prophet of your pallid paladin?

"There is no god and I am his prophet! You must believe me; it's direly important that you believe there are no gods! If you don't I will call you bad names until you believe me!" :evil:

It's a good thing Islamists don't have such faith or we'd be in trouble :?

I say life is a property inherent to the universe and you start on about fairies and pixies.

You say life is a fluke of a bunch of junk assembled meticulously with the life-property being magically conjured into existence somehow... maybe by the fairies and pixies you were on about. Maybe it's the pixie dust that differentiates dna from water, eh?

I say wherever conditions are right, what you call "life" is dying to come into existence because what I call life was there all along. Then you throw a temper tantrum insisting life magically comes from dead stuff all while insisting there are no gods to make it magically happen.

You are one butthurt bodhisattva!

Image
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Serendipper
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Re: The Problem of Intelligence

Post by Serendipper » Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:29 am

Video showing link between rocks and "life". The whole video is good, but I've cued it to the part explaining how complex molecules form inside the clay. There are some good animations.



That did it for me and I like that geologist's enthusiasm as well because the missing link was how to get from small molecules to big ones and rocks built the bridge.

There are no lines separating life from nonlife and to assert one is arbitrary which begs the question of why bother; what's the incentive?
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Satyr
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Re: The Problem of Intelligence

Post by Satyr » Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:15 am

Serendipper wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:48 am
Satyr wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:38 pm
Blubbering Sniveling
Hey La Trollio, this is you right?
Ouch, you got me.
Burn!!!
Like an ankle-biter yapping incessantly or perhaps incestuously about Sodom's demise post-Weimar. Der Fuhrer musta missed one :twisted:
I will use your technique and redefine 'ankle biter' for arse fucker....and create my own self-pleasing reality.
Your imagery is dated. 'Ankle biter' is old.....saw it first in the nineties.
Did the mean ole bible-thumpers pick on you in school too? Why all the rage against religion? Why the crusade against conviction? Why the holy war against holiness; the Jihad against Jesus; the push against piety; the demonization of denomination; the infanticide of faith? What's it to ya? Why can't you live and let live instead of portraying the prophet of your pallid paladin?
Yes...i was bullied in school, my dad raped me, nobody loves me.
"There is no god and I am his prophet! You must believe me; it's direly important that you believe there are no gods! If you don't I will call you bad names until you believe me!" :evil:
It's a good thing Islamists don't have such faith or we'd be in trouble :?

I say life is a property inherent to the universe and you start on about fairies and pixies.
I'm now writing on my Love Ontology philosophy.
If i flatter you, give you false praise, will you be more inclined to buy what I am selling?
Girls love a good flatterer.
I say love is inherent property in the universe.
You say life is a fluke of a bunch of junk assembled meticulously with the life-property being magically conjured into existence somehow... maybe by the fairies and pixies you were on about. Maybe it's the pixie dust that differentiates dna from water, eh?
Yes, 'fluke', 'junk' 'magically' you got it.
Gold golds gold.
Magic - take a word redefine it as another word, and you fabricate brilliance.
Word magic.
I say wherever conditions are right, what you call "life" is dying to come into existence because what I call life was there all along. Then you throw a temper tantrum insisting life magically comes from dead stuff all while insisting there are no gods to make it magically happen.

You are one butthurt bodhisattva!

Image
You can declare whatever pleases your girly heart, sweetie....nobody will bother with you....well except other girls and men-children looking for a quickie.
Why are you crying out?
Life is all around you, love is everywhere.
The computer you type on, the chair you sit on, the desk, the stones, your panties....everywhere seething life.
Order = life
Bingo...magic of words. Redefine existence and create a new reality....be god....logos.

Here, let me try...
Stupid = genius...poof, there you are, a genius.
I think you are a follower looking for a cult.
Scientology is on its way down...maybe a new rising one. you can be part of its groundbreaking emergence.
Communicating with stones, listening to gold explain its memories of goldness.

Let me try another magic trick...
Light = gold....voila, a universe of gold streaming particles, glistening majestically their life force.....all is gold.....let us bathe in it.

Just wanted you to get excited, sweetie and show me what you are.
I came,
I saw
I... well I rejected.
I really do not need a whore in my life. Plenty of those going around.

Well I'll now leave you to avenge yourself.
Hope to see more of your word redefining brilliance.

Ta,Ta,

Serendipper
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Re: The Problem of Intelligence

Post by Serendipper » Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:53 am

Satyr wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:15 am
Well I'll now leave you to avenge yourself.
Avenge myself? I'd hardly call scraping bubble gum from my shoe an act of vengeance, but it's inspirational of further analysis for why you think shitting on the chess board can make one victorious.

Since you've gone to such lengths in driving home the point that you're unable to be aware of your own shortcomings and have consequently become impervious to shame in lieu of a demonstrable mechanism for introspection, I suppose therefore that you can be unabashedly ridiculed like a punching bag that can feel no pain, evidently in absence of neurological mechanism to produce it, and are likewise unable to retaliate outside of slinging feces.
Satyr wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:23 pm
You can't make me feel bad even if you tried.
Oh what fortuitous circumstance be this!

Ann Coulter has often said that one can only punch up, not down, because the one you're criticizing has to be smart enough to understand the criticism, therefore you can never insult the stupid. The truth of that is obvious enough to see, but it begs the question if the corollary is also true: that those who can never be insulted are necessarily stupid.

This turn of events is another illustration of the problem of intelligence since the intelligent may be more perceptive of subtle criticism and the various nuances thereof which may cause overreaction to criticism, often leading to depression, while the dullards have a mechanism to blissfully blow it off by virtue of either: not understanding it in the first place or Dunning and Kruger's observation that those with low ability often have illusory superiority. If you're the shit, how can anyone challenge that? In the self/other relationship, the "self" can never be challenged because the "other" is defined to be inferior by the "illusory superiority" symptom and therefore no insult can have merit.

Dunning-Kruger has actually gotten quite old (1999) and, as it turns out, there's been new research published in 2015, both confirming and adding-to:

Unskilled and Don't Want to Be Aware of It: The Effect of Self-Relevance on the Unskilled and Unaware Phenomenon

"We contend that the unskilled are motivated to ignore (be unaware of) their poor performance so that they can feel better about themselves. We tested this idea in an experiment in which we manipulated the perceived self-relevancy of the task to men and women after they had completed a visual pun task and before they estimated their performance on the task. As predicted, the unskilled and unaware effect was attenuated when the task was perceived to have low self-relevance."

So not only can one be too dumb to know he is dumb, but can also have a big ego about what he mistakenly knows.

To illustrate, the women in the study had more motivation to excel in language because it's part of the feminine persona to be articulately accomplished while men give less of a shit in general.

"We expected that in this condition, male participants would perceive the task to be less important to men than to women. Hence male participants would see the task to be less self-relevant.

Male participants in the language ability condition did not consider the task to be important to the self. As a result, they were not motivated to self-enhance their performance on the task (see [9]) and therefore did not display a pronounced positive response bias. Instead, they based their estimation primarily on their actual performance. In this case, the unskilled are not motivated to ignore (be unaware of) their incompetence and they estimated their relative performance fairly accurately.

In contrast, female participants in the language ability condition considered the task to be important to the self. Hence, they were motivated to self-enhance; they displayed a pronounced positive response bias and did not base their estimation on their actual performance. In this case, the unskilled are motivated to ignore (be unaware of) their incompetence. As a result, they grossly overestimated their relative performance."


Do you have a motivation to self-enhance? Is "religion" somehow important to you?
i was bullied in school, my dad raped me, nobody loves me.
I was figuring your priest, which would explain why you have a boner for persecuting religions.

The fact that you've made a habit of categorizing people into groups with cherry-picked stigmatizing labels as a means of discreditation coupled with the fact that you seem unable to see the error of that fallacy makes me question just how insightful you can be and it's a legitimate complaint because that is not terribly difficult.

I would expect a significant % of the general population to pigeonhole, stigmatize, demonize, and dismiss, but people contemplating the ground of being and true nature of reality should know fallacies from phalluses by then.
Serendipity - the occurrence of events by chance in a happy or beneficial way; life; learning.

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encode_decode
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Re: The Problem of Intelligence

Post by encode_decode » Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:52 pm

Serendipper wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:36 am
This thread is a demonstration of confirmation bias as I am setting out to prove what I suspect :D

While I'm here, I may as well drop this off:

It's tough being a genius!
I have not been able to get much further in the study yet so I have not had the time to read this either. I am busy trying to get my terminology right with my own philosophy but in saying that - the tab is still open so I will be reading both and making comments.

Cheers :D
- Mind is an ever changing dimension that is bound to reality, logic and emotion. (2017) -

Serendipper
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Re: The Problem of Intelligence

Post by Serendipper » Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:31 am

encode_decode wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:52 pm
I have not been able to get much further in the study yet so I have not had the time to read this either. I am busy trying to get my terminology right with my own philosophy but in saying that - the tab is still open so I will be reading both and making comments.

Cheers :D
I've had tabs open for years. The pc crashes and restarts, the tabs come back, but I guess after I crash and restart, my interest doesn't come back. :lol: Then a HDD failure finally took them out a few months ago :(
Serendipity - the occurrence of events by chance in a happy or beneficial way; life; learning.

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